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Arthritis Diet and Exercises

Vegan vs. Omnivore: The Debate (Breakdown of Kahn & Kresser)

This is a chronological breakdown of the Joe
Rogan Experience #1175 – with Dr. Joel Kahn and Chris Kresser, debating on whether a whole
foods based vegan diet or a whole foods based omnivore diet is better.  I’ll lay out
their arguments and add a little commentary where relevant. At the end I’ll briefly
talk about what I think each side could have done better. First here’s a list of the
topics we’ll look at: The discussion starts with introductions.
Dr. Joel Kahn MD is a holistic cardiologist and 42 year vegan.Chris Kresser has a Masters
in Science and is the co-director of the California Center for Functional Medicine. He was once
a vegan, but switched to a whole foods omnivore diet. Around the 6 minute mark, they jump into discussing
the problems with using epidemiology to make conclusions about nutrition. “Epidemiology, observational studies, are
studies that look at a certain group of people… say we take a group and we look and see how
much saturated fat are they eating – we separate them into, y’know, low consumption, medium
consumption, high consumption… we might then look 20 years later and see how many
people had heart attacks and died…” The criticisms mentioned were that
・Epidemiology assumes that there is one diet for everyone. ・It reduces everything
down to components without looking at the whole picture. For example if a study is looking
at the effects of high fat diets, it wouldn’t differentiate between a high fat dominoes
pizza and snickers bar diet and a carefully formed whole foods diet that is packed with
coconut oil and avocados. Dr. Kahn does say that epidemiology studies
are at least useful for testing hypotheses.  “You can test a hypothesis … what happens
if … our data, may be crappy, but it’s still data and it allows you to go further with
100,000 people, 50,000 people, 500,000 people” Kresser then goes on to explain three more
problems with epidemiology: “I think there’s huge problems with epidemiology.” ・The data are only as good as the tool used
to collect them. The tool very commonly used for epidemiology studies is a questionnaire,
which is not reliable simply because people are not good at precisely remembering what
they ate. An example of this problem is the recent study on low carb diets which relied
on a questionnaire like this one asking participants things like “How many of these foods did
you eat per month over the past year?” My hat is off to you if you can remember your
precise monthly consumption of bananas, broccoli and chicken for all of last year. The second point is the healthy user bias
which says that people who are likely to do a vegetarian diet, which is thought to be
healthy, are also likely to do several other things that are thought to be healthy like
not smoke or get plenty of exercise. “Well, red meat has been perceived as unhealthy
for a long time. In those observational studies, the people who eat more red meat are also
smoking more, they’re eating less fewer fruits and vegetables… they have higher body mass
index, they’re less physically active. So how do you know that it’s the red meat…
that’s causing the problem and not those other things? You don’t.” The third point is that the relative risks
in nutrition derived from epidemiology research are so low that they are indistinguishable
from chance. “So, in fields outside of nutrition and
epidemiology, nobody would consider an increase in risk less than %100 – a doubling, to be
really worth paying attention to. The observational studies that Joel was referring to that confirmed
that cigarette smoking led to lung cancer… that showed between a 1000 and 3000 percent
increase in lung cancer in smokers. Okay? The IARC, the WHO report that suggested that
processed red meat is a carcinogen – that was 18 percent increase” “Lot of respect and agreement, but if we throw
epidemiology out-” “I’m not suggesting that by the way.”
“I know I know, if we throw epidemiology away, we’ve thrown away about 80% of nutrition knowledge,
because that is the most common kind of study. And that still leaves us with basic science,
it leaves us with randomized clinical trials which are very hard in nutrition, and they’re
very expensive. And it finally leaves us with studying old healthy people – centenarian
studies.” Around the 34 minute mark, the conversation
shifts to meat. Kresser mentions that the proposed mechanisms thought to be behind processed
meat causing cancer are N-nitroso compounds, heme iron, TMAO and Neu5GC and heterocyclic
amines formed from cooking. He then points out that context is very important: For example,
eating a hot dog is very different from eating a hotdog with Kale. vegetables reduce levels of N-nitroso compounds
and heme iron, and cruciferous vegetables reduce heterocyclic amines. Neu5Gc wasn’t
addressed but TMAO is discussed later in the debate. Kahn agrees that if people eat meat it should
be with vegetables. “Next time you eat meat, get a salad, next
time you eat meat, order broccoli. Next time you have bacon, get a, y’know, sliced tomatoes.
You will actually improve your health.” “they took healthy volunteers, they took them
down to the hospital cafeteria and they fed them a hospital burger, and they were measuring
on their arm how their arteries functioned. Artery function goes down in 3 hours when
you eat a hospital burger. They took the same group a week later, they had them eat the
same burger with a big salad. They didn’t see that finding.” After this, from about the 40 minute mark
and for the next hour and twenty minutes, they had a meandering discussion on whether
saturated fat causes heart disease. Dr. Kahn illustrates his position on saturated fat
with five points, starting with some history: “…Ancel Keys suggested dietary fat might
be a factor – it was a hypothesis, it was early stage epidemiology, doesn’t prove anything.
He went out and did studies, other people did studies and the idea transitioned, the
focus went on saturated fat in food which is basically chicken, red meat, pizza and
subsequently enough data accumulated that guidelines started to suggest – we have this
huge problem with heart disease, we should limit saturated fat in the diet. And that
has now promulgated into 21 international statements, whether it’s the World Health
Organization, American Heart Association, American College of Cardiology – Institute
of medicine says eat as little saturated fat as possible – they couldn’t be more clear,
and these are high brow.” “Okay but why did they come to the conclusion
that saturated fat-” Then he explains that this is because
・Basic science shows that when you eat foods rich in saturated fat – which is called: “meat,
cheese, eggs and such”, receptors on your liver for cholesterol goes down. This prevents
the cholesterol from getting into the liver so the cholesterol floats around in the blood
stream. “That’s the basic biochemistry. Then they
had epidemiology studies, flawed, perfect, it doesn’t matter, there were so many of
them.” “Then they did controlled trials – Clarke 1997, 395 – it’s called metabolic studies
– change the diet, see what happens. You add saturated fat, cholesterol skyrockets – on
average, not in a single person. Then there were many epidemiology studies that seemed
to support this point. ・Then there was a 1997 paper on 395 metabolic
ward experiments that showed that saturated fat increases cholesterol on average – not
in a single person. …It’s our microbiome… it’s our genetics – it would rise.” “And then finally, finally, they looked at
populations that live over 100 – these are called the pillars of longevity – they don’t
eat foods rich in saturated fat. They eat a lot of olive oil in Italy and Greece – they
eat almost no dietary fat in Okinawa Japan and they have the greatest longevity in the
world in 1970 – they eat almost no dietary fat, about 6 – 7%” In response, Kresser says “First of all,
everything we eat has all the fats in it… Does it make sense that you could eat mackeral
and you know the polyunsaturated fats in it are good for you but the saturated fat in
it is bad for you?“ “… and in fact, two tablespoons of olive oil has more saturated
fat than a 7 oz pork chop.” Actually this isn’t quite right as a 7oz pork chop will
give you 7g of saturated fat vs. 4g from two tablespoons of olive oil, but if Kresser had
compared by calories, Olive Oil would give you more a little bit more saturated fat. Also, let me comment on this idea that they
eat almost no dietary fat in Okinawa Japan. In Okinawan restaurants in Tokyo and Okinawa,
most of the dishes you see are …pork. Pork belly, pork ribs, pig innard soup, pig ears,
pig feet and so on. And if you go to the Okinawa prefectural website and click on “food culture,”
it says that “Ryukyu cuisine begins with pork and ends with pork.” Historically,
the pig population of Okinawa was very high, reaching 110,000 pigs – that is 1 pig for
every 6 people before World War 2. Tragically, the devastation of the war cut the Okinawan
population almost in half and destroyed most of their food supply. The pork population
was cut down almost 90% to just 14,000. You may have heard that the Okinawan has nearly
70% of calories coming from purple sweet potato and just 3% from saturated fat. But the survey
that found this was conducted in 1949, when people were still struggling to avoid starvation
in the aftermath of the war. However, just 14 years after the war, the Okinawan pig population
surpassed its previous high reaching 142,000 in 1960. Moving on, around the 45 minute mark, Kresser
references this paper by Zoe Harcombe that reviews meta-analyses of randomized controlled
trials before 1983, and says “No randomised controlled trial had tested government dietary
fat recommendations before their introduction,” it concludes that reducing blood cholesterol
“did not result in significant differences in CHD or all-cause mortality.” Randomized
controlled trials and their meta-analyses are widely regarded as a very strong piece
of evidence, especially in comparison to epidemiology studies. Meaning dietary recommendations to
limit saturated fat were introduced without proper evidence for them. So how did they stay on this topic for the
next hour? Well there were a couple reasons: Kresser early on pointed out that we should
be focused not on whether saturated fat increases cholesterol, but on whether saturated fat
actually directly increases heart disease or all cause mortality. “The other problem
is they were using cholesterol as a proxy marker – they weren’t looking at did people
eat saturated fat and die more, they looked at did saturated fat increase cholesterol?” However, Kresser at times was questioning
whether saturated fat increases cholesterol on average. This muddled his argument about
looking at end points, and the data seems to be on Kahn’s side here- “You add saturated
fat, cholesterol skyrockets on average, not in a single person.” as Chris Masterjohn points
out in his own analysis of this debate: “Kresser was mistaken to say that saturated
fat on average does not raise cholesterol levels. What you see on the screen is data
from the LA veterans administration hospital study. This is reflecting the main difference,
which is the difference between saturated fat on the top and polyunsaturated fat on
the bottom and over the course of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 years, right up until the study
was terminated, although the cholesterol levels changed over time, this big gap between the
two diets remained.” Also, throughout this section, Kresser brings
up several meta analyses of randomized controlled trials in favor of low carb diets, which are
expected to be higher in saturated fat, “there have been several metaanalyses now that have
looked at low carb diets and all of these meta analyses have found that low carb diets
are superior for glycemic control, for reducing insulin, for reducing triglycerides without
increasing cardiovascular risk markers – so now we’re talking about randomized controlled
trials which is the best form of evidence that we have and we’re not seeing any harm
from increased consumption of saturated fat.” In response to this it would have been a good
idea for Kahn to just point out that it would be too time consuming for them to sit down
and analyze these studies and move on. But, when asked to address or explain what is wrong
with these studies Kresser has brought up, Kahn dodged the question several times over
a period of about 50 minutes and Joe Rogan had to keep bringing the question back up. “Why are you dismissing this new evidence?”
“What is your response though to all these studies that he was citing?”
“These new studies that he’s showing, and we can go over them again, but you didn’t
address why- you did?” “get kids healthy-”
“Please, please, what is wrong with what he said?”
“What’s your take on what he said though?” “Well I don’t care honestly what he said,
I’ve got to go with the best science in the world because I deal with patients who have
serious disease…” “I think we should move on, but-”
“No we definitely shouldn’t because we’re not- we’re not really clearing this up. What
is he saying that’s wrong?” “Okay, the biochemistry that saturated fat
in your diet will lower the number of LDL receptors on your liver and your blood cholesterol
goes up. Then you get to epidemiology-” “Okay but do you understand that he’s, he’s
saying something totally different. You’re citing epidemiology studies-”
“Well I started with Biochemistry, then I went to epidemiology-”
“I want to know what’s wrong with what he said…”
“Because he’s not being broad with the science.” “Okay but what’s these studies that he’s talking
about.” “They’re pixel mentalities. Picking one…”
“I’m trying to boil this down – so what is your take on that? Without any references
to the past and people who lived in Mongolia that lived longer…”
“These are three disruptive randomized trials from 2010 on that questioned the relationship-”
“No, those are different trials, Joel. I’m not referring to Krause’s research or Chaudhry’s.”
“What is wrong with what he’s saying? “It takes a heretical conspiracy attitude
to say everybody’s got it wrong for 60 years. 21 international societies have it wrong – they
could…” “So he’s saying that the current science is
showing that there is no negative consequence of saturated fat.”
“That’s BS. That’s BS.” “So what is wrong with these studies that
he’s citing?” “I don’t know, I have not read every article
in the world, nor has Chris. There are three famous studies that I’ve read. Seri Torino
Chaudhry and DeSuza, those have been dissected, those are generally-”
“Those were not the ones that I cited anyways.” Joe Rogan’s constant challenging of Kahn
to address this question may be why some commenters felt Rogan was biased in the debate. But,
the same thing happened when Kresser made a mistake. He was wrong about the dietary
guidelines having changed their position on total fat intake in 2010, and Rogan challenged
Kresser multiple times to get this point addressed. “Is that a mistake, Chris?”
“It’s right here…” “Can we find it because these seems like a
major point of dispute.” “Lemme, can I stop you because I really think
we should clarify that.” “So what was it that you remembered from 2010
and did you remember it erroneously?” “Umm. Let’s see here.”
“Did you find out if you made an error on this 2010 requirement from the USDA?”
“So, I don’t have the full guidelines in front of me and I’m not sure what the language says
so I could have made an error, it’s possible.” Finally moving on, at the 1 hour 58 minute
mark they discuss the point that saturated fat combined with sugar is particularly bad.
In the context of a super low carb high fat ketogenic diet, dietary fat will actually
decrease blood levels of saturated fatty acids. On the other hand, refined carbohydrates will
increase them “You eat a lot of sugar, you activate another aging pathway called p-KRas.” Kahn also argues that meat inherently accelerates
the aging process due to its effects on MTOR and IGF-1, and he cites this paper by Morgan
Levine that shows that high animal protein intake increases cancer, overall mortality
and IGF-1 in people. Interestingly, the paper mentions that specifically, low protein may
be beneficial if you’re between the ages of 45 and 65, but if you’re over 65, low
protein can be detrimental. In any case, Dr. Kahn says that the methionine
in animal protein is what stimulates aging via the mTOR pathway, but as Chris Masterjohn
points out in his breakdown video “Methionine is an amino acid and you can divide
it into two components. One is there’s a basic skeleton of that amino acid and on top of
that, there’s what we call a methyl group. That methyl group is what supports an entire
system in the body called methylation that is important to all kinds of mental and physical
health.” for methionine to stimulate mTOR it needs
to donate a methyl group. So if you have too much methionine, you’d have too many methyl
groups and you could accelerate aging. But, we have an amino acid called glycine that
acts as a buffer for too many methyl groups. So if you’re getting methionine from muscle
meat, it’s not an issue if you’re eating other glycine rich parts of the animal like
connective tissue and skin, or drinking bone broth. The other worry about meat is homocysteine,
homocysteine is well known for its apparent contribution to heart disease. So, once methionine donates that methyl group,
it becomes homocysteine. But, In order to get rid of the homocysteine, you need all
the B vitamins. And… animal foods are quite high in B vitamins. Shifting topics, around the 2 hour 29 minute
mark, Dr. Kahn brings up TMAO: “TMAO. If you eat red meat which is rich in L-Carnitine,
another amino acid, if you eat eggs that’s rich in choline, those directly led your liver
to create TMAO. What does TMAO do? It stuns your HDL so it doesn’t reverse cholesterol
transport, it causes LDL to enter the cell wall to create foam cells, macrophages, plaque
and you get a heart attack.” “Actually Joel, what in the diet increases
TMAO orders of magnitude more- “-fish! Because fish has it right in there
fish flesh along with that mercury and their PCB’s and…”
“-What would most doctors and researchers say about fish consumption and cardiovascular
disease and mortality. There are few things that are associated with a greater decrease
in cardiovascular disease risk than fish consumption. And… TMAO, if you look at a graph – the
increase in TMAO from eggs, beef, cheese, milk, clams and then look at cod and halibut.
Cod and halibut are increasing TMAO, as I said, orders of magnitude more than beef or
eggs. You can’t even see eggs and beef there and fish consumption, I think almost every
public health authority would recommend-would agree with this is reducing the risk of heart
disease and mortality so the other thing about TMAO to know is that certain types of gut
bacteria metabolize choline and carnitine into TMAO whereas others don’t. A lot of scientists
have speculated that high TMAO levels are essentially a result of a disrupted gut microbiome.
There’s studies showing that rifaxamin which is an antibiotic that treats bacterial overgrowth
in the small intestine reduces serum TMAO levels. Which suggests that it’s mediated
by the gut microbiome.” The conversation on TMAO eventually fizzled
out and later on Kahn and Kresser agreed that you should up your veggies in any case. Kresser
said your plate should be ⅔ to ¾ plants. Around the 3 hour 4 minute mark, Joe Rogan
asked Kresser what the benefit is of “putting that one quarter of your plate – putting animal
protein.” “There are lots of benefits, animal protein is more nutrient dense in essential
nutrients – animal foods are higher in B12, bioavailable Zinc, Iron, Calcium, Choline,
Taurine, Creatine and not just higher in terms of the actual amounts, but higher in the amount
that you absorb and that’s a very key point.”  Joe Rogan then asks what would be negative
about removing the animal products from that one quarter of your plate. Kresser begins
by explaining you would end up lacking B12, and he says that more important than looking
at what is theoretically possible, that is, instead of seeing whether it’s possible
fill in this B12 lack with supplements, what’s important is checking the actual incidence
of deficiencies. “for example, the average omnivore – the rate
of B12 depletion is 11% and then for vegetarians, it’s 77% and for vegans it’s 92% of depletion
which is the first stage – there’s four stages of B12 deficiency and that’s the first stage.” As was discussed earlier in the video, you
want to keep homocysteine down and you need B vitamins like B12 to do that. This study
also found that 16% of the omnivores, 38% of the vegetarians and 67% of the vegans had
high homocysteine levels. “A lot of people turn to a no animal product
diet to improve their cardiovascular health and yet you’re seeing much higher rates of
homocysteine like the average in vegans is 16, which is clearly associated with increased
risk of not only cardiovascular disease but also dementia and alzheimer’s.” This a point where Kahn seemed to agree with
Kresser. “Chris I couldn’t agree more, I’ve written many articles- ‘don’t be
a dumb vegan’… and I don’t mean to offend but y’know… We are prone to have a few holes
in the wall that an intelligent person knows how to plug. It’s Vitamin D, it’s DHA, B12, Iodine, Taurine,
Vanadium, Chromium, I just got those, that’s what I do every other day. I’m totally complete.” “But let’s look at things like Calcium, Iron,
Zinc, Choline, Creatine, Retinol which is preformed Vitamin A, let’s look at EPA and
DHA. All of these are shown to be lower in vegetarians and vegans than they are in omnivores.” Next, Kresser talks about whether or not it’s
a good idea to rely on supplements. “Yes, you can supplement, but it just- do
the supplements have the same effect? Like look at calcium. Dietary calcium has inversely
related to heart disease and kidney stones. But when you look at studies on calcium supplements,
the opposite is true. Calcium supplements are associated with an increase in heart disease
and an increase in kidney stones. But the theory is that supplemental calcium is not
the same as dietary calcium – you get a large bolus of calcium that goes into your blood
all at once and then it can get into the soft tissues – which, Joel will tell you, is not
good for your heart health. My point is that supplements don’t always affect the body in
the same way…. I just think it’s better to get nutrients from food if you can because
that’s the way we’ve been getting them for millions of years, y’know. “Just to show how nutrient dense organ meats
and shellfish are: You could eat 1 clam, 1 oyster, and four grams of liver a day and
you would completely meet your needs for B12, Zinc, Copper, Choline and many other nutrients
with no other consumption of animal foods.” Moving onto the 3 hour 19 minute mark, they
briefly talk about the carnivore diet. “I am baffled by this carnivore diet.” Dr. Kahn and Joe Rogan talk about how Vitamin
C may not be an issue because glucose competes with vitamin C for uptake, so the little Vitamin
C these carnivore people get from organ meats and muscle meat could be sufficient because
they use it very efficiently. Kresser has a theory that the people benefitting from
this are experiencing something like a gut rest. “Meat is absorbed very high up in the
digestive tract- when you only eat meat, it’s a low residue diet. And there’s nothing left
over to irritate or inflame the gut, my theory is a lot of people who are benefitting from
this have a really disrupted gut microbiome and the carnivore diet is essentially like
a gut rest or a fast, and so I don’t doubt that people are benefitting from it – the
question is what is the long term implication.” Other than that a big concern was how well
people will fare without phytonutrients and fiber. “Should we wrap this up? One thing that we
came to a really solid conclusion is the standard american diet sucks.” All in all both sides had interesting points
to contribute to the debate and the video is worth watching or listening to, though
I’d recommend to start watching from about the two hour mark as I felt the second half
was more productive and interesting.

100 thoughts on “Vegan vs. Omnivore: The Debate (Breakdown of Kahn & Kresser)

  1. I became vegetarian for ethical reasons and I gained more weight than ever. I got unhealthily fat because I substituted meat for more grains. Vegetarian and vegan diets are only healthy if you consume more veggies and fruits. It’s expensive to eat healthy. Veggies/fruits are not as filling and are perishable, requiring constant shopping. I had to switch back to meat to maintain healthy weight.

  2. The first mistake is vegan is an ideology, not a diet. It contains a strick vegetarian diet so you should be only talking about that not veganism.

  3. It's sad when we have the technology and knowledge to literally take humans to Mars, yet we still don't "really" know what we "should" be eating for long-term health and wellness. Food is such an integral part of our existence, you would think that we would know all the many facets of food by now and how our body handles it.

  4. Diversity always wins. Yea you can get all the vitamins and minerals from the vegan diet but omnivore can eat all of that and foods that have other benefits such as trace minerals that are not essential but they help your body run more smoothly.

  5. I am a subscriber to your channel and I link these videos too many other people getting you more subscribers. however, this is one video that I do not share because I don't want to give Joe Rogan any more views. I don't understand his popularity other than to a specific of male viewers. He skews conservative, he skews racist, he goes in the direction of things I do not want to support. On a personal level I find him appalling and very toxic, the fact that he masks it is more disturbing.

  6. I just turned 40.. I eat whole foods and I am omnivorous with the seasons. My body is still fit and healthy. I noticed that I only eat once a day, and if I was eating more than I needed then I felt slow.

  7. I'd love to test carnivore fish only (e.g. salmon) but if not rather stick with omnivore. Fish, avocados, olives, flax and chia seeds, leafy greens. Safest I know.

  8. Because of chronic illness (arthritis and prostatitis) I try to eat healthy … Since, today, it is impossible to know what a healthy diet is, I decided that, for me, it means eating food in its most natural way … colored foods, lots of vegetables and some fruits … My symptoms thus decreased a lot … However, to some extent, they stayed and sometimes came back … From animal foods, I ate my liver. eggs and fish, alternately, and sometimes other meat … I did it, thinking that this is the only way I could get all the vitamins and minerals without supplements. At one point, I decided to see what it would be like to throw out all the animal products … and then my symptoms started to disappear quickly … After a while when they were almost completely gone … I thought, after all, I should add some liver and fish … the symptoms would, again, intensify …

    Since then I have been trying to eat the WFPB diet, 60-70% raw because my symptoms dictate it to me … All science is in vain, the only science is personal feeling …

    As for vitamins and minerals, there are enough of them in your food if you eat enough of it … Even when I only eat bananas all day, which is a few pounds, and plenty of starch and fructose, I feel best … as far as b12 is concerned, I believe it is enough to just drink water from the ground, which is available to me, as well as eat unwashed fruits and vegetables, which is also available to me … And, maybe, eat sauerkraut …

    In my diet, I rarely eat legumes, and from cereals I eat rice and millet, 2-3 times a week …

  9. Is vitamin B12 a processed item? Where does is come from? How can you get it into your system economically? What about other vitamins and minerals?

  10. Hospital food is terrible, both in quality of ingredients and taste. Just noting for using the "hospital burger" and hot dog examples. Hospital burgers aren't much better than McDonald's.

  11. Vegans are omnivore though?
    Omnivore is biology based. Look at our teeth for starters? Vegans have canine teeth?
    I understand the point of the title, but it's just not correct in reality.

  12. So Dr. Dressed like a Vegas Magician's argument is that we shouldn't throw out the epidemiology even though the correlations are so low they're basically statistical noise. Uh huh.

  13. Also, in Sardegna, which is the region in Italy where people live the longest, and which is the region he is mentioning to ague that people live longer without saturated fats, people eat a lot of pork.

  14. Wow still going on that discussion? Lets be honest, who knows a man and what do they eat ? Primarily meat and than some tiny tiny amount of veggies. They call that an omnivore diet and justify it for anything. Every other variation following this keto, montiact, carb free, gluten free is all an attempt to justify the amount of meat. This whole discussion is pointless as both sides have dug in trenches. As the saying go, this discussion is MOO 🙂

  15. I've researched the lot then added my personal experience and amazing benefits I've felt. My diet is now what some people would 'restrictive' but I think is perfect. Red meat, eggs, dairy and a few veg.

  16. My Gran is 100 this year and outlived two of her kids so far. Her diet was and is meat, dripping, fish, eggs and dairy any veg were home grown. I'd rather follow her than government guidelines.

  17. Omnivore? Plants are TOXIC to Humans. Vegans suffer from Brain Atrophy. Epidemiology is NOT SCIENCE. Epidemiology is NONSENSE.

  18. What I've learned from my recent foray looking into which diet is best for me is this:
    There are lies , damn lies and scientific studies. Every diet has numerous real life samples that has proven to have changed the persons life or reversed their dire medical condition. Here's a thought – If your parents or grand parents are still alive and have reached old age – eat what they eat.

  19. At the 16:50 mark you put up a chart for "Liver," to show it's high B vitamin content, but c'mon, who eats liver these days? When I was growing up my Mother periodically fed us liver to ensure we got our B-12, but I can't tell you the last time I ANYONE server liver on any occasion. Pretty much everyone hates the stuff. So it's a little bit shady to include it in the discussion.

  20. Honestly you should do a video on the old school Italian diet, science says they live the longest and I can almost guarantee it comes down to their diet🤷‍♀️ 🤷‍♂️

  21. There are a lot of reasons for all this confusion, but I suspect a big one has to do with money, like all things.
    There is no money to be made from people adopting simple, healthy diets, from both the food and the health/pharma industry. A lot of the work is automatically done for them, sugar is addicting and meat tastes better than beans and broccoli. They fill in the rest by causing confusion and contradiction with advertisements and "studies" they fund themselves.

  22. you can do this in a nano machine micro like state and and the end result would be the same, eating meat and vegies is healthy, stay avay from sugar, bread, and al the stuff you realy know is toxic for you.

  23. To be effective you can only have ONE main priority and for influential vegans that main priority is saving animals from harm. I don’t know about you but if my main priority is getting as healthy as possible I’d rather follow the people who have that as their main objective.

  24. 1:23 “and a carefully Whole Foods diet that is packed with avocados and coconut oil.” Whole food, meaning to not be refined or processed, so coconut oil isn’t on a Whole Foods diet, so not comparable. Also nice video I agree with this one.

  25. The carnivore diet sounds quite a bit like what a person would find in pretty much any coastal diet. Heavy in sea/lake/river sourced food and protein as well as birds and many land mammals which gravitate towards bodies of water. It sounds like the diet would also rely heavily on the processing and consumption of the majority of any animal harvested, from organ meats to brains and even bones.
    Evolutionarily speaking, there's quite a bit of evidence that suggests early humans followed and and established many early and thriving settlements near bodies of water most likely because it provided a rich source of food and acted as a transportation corridor.

  26. The carnivore diet sounds quite a bit like what a person would find in pretty much any coastal diet. Heavy in sea/lake/river sourced food and protein as well as birds and many land mammals which gravitate towards bodies of water. It sounds like the diet would also rely heavily on the processing and consumption of the majority of any animal harvested, from organ meats to brains and even bones.
    Evolutionarily speaking, there's quite a bit of evidence that suggests early humans followed and and established many early and thriving settlements near bodies of water most likely because it provided a rich source of food and acted as a transportation corridor.

  27. I am 90% vegetarian, still eat farm eggs, fish I catch and venison occasionally. What I've learned Moderation works best for me. Your manliness increases when you eat healthy, less processed foods and stay active.

  28. Cholesterol does NOT cause CVD, LDL canNOT get between the tight junctions in the endothelium, AND people with higher cholesterol live LONGER, so this discussion about cholesterol is beyond the point!

  29. And yet my grandmother eats whatever she wants, drinks wine and bourbon multiple times a week, is a healthy weight and is currently thriving at 98

  30. It is well documented that eating too much muscle meat (methionine) without balancing out with glycine found in those organ meats, skin, and collagen can contribute to chronic issues. Which makes sense from an evolutionary biology standpoint because we did not used to have access to as much muscle meat as we have today. I think this is really important for those on keto to note to get the best health outcomes from the diet.

  31. What we need to do is –Get the Corrupt Monsanto CAFO Farming OUT–We need Biodynamic Regenerative Farming—Monsanto/Bayer Toxic Roundup such as DDT–agent orange–atrazine—glyphosate etc.—go beyond organic—go beyond gluten free—go beyond GMO free—Join the Glyphosate Residue Free Project—

  32. We need cholesterol—what we do not need is small dense LDL-Lipoprotein—-I have calcified aorta–calcified areteries—I now take K2-7—–I also drink RAW A2 Milk–Not pasteurized/homogenized A2 Milk—Definately Not A1 Milk with the dangerous opioid BCM-7—-!!!

  33. What I've learned living on a plant based diet for years now is that every time I go back to meat and dairy my LDL level raises as does my blood pressure. So I have to conclude meat and dairy are not healthy for me.

  34. I think everyone will find data that supports the diet they like and negative data to support the diets they don't like. Eat what you enjoy. Bottom lines is everyone dies.

  35. The cholesterol scare is all due to Ancel Keyes 7 countries study, which, was Keyes picking ONLY the countries out of the original 21, that showed him what he wanted to prove. The other countries DID NOT show the heart disease problems related to cholesterol that he wanted to prove.

  36. Been Vegan for 2 months. Considered myself already healthy before just by not eating processed foods, not drinking and not smoking. Here's what happened with nothing but a change in diet: my complexion is more even and my skin is smoother. My eyes are brighter and more vivid. Hair is glossier. I have more energy to exercise. No more acne. I feel lighter even though I gained 3 kilos. My dark circles are gone. I sleep better. I 100% believe I've made the right choice

  37. "if we throw out Epidemiology, we basically are throwing out 80% of all nutritional science"….face the facts! your science is nothing more than pseudo science, so throw it the hell out already and stop lying to yourself and US ALL! its almost as if this was all done on purpose…..you bet your ass it was done on purpose.

  38. B12 is produced by a bacteria in the soil. Because of industrial processes of keeping the food free of bacteria and harmful things the food loses almost all (if not all) of the B12. So the food either lacks of B12 or it's added to it later.

  39. We didn't evolve to eat vegetables, as all vegetables are seasonal our species evolved with meat as a main.. vegetables on the other hand, have a fats called ldl which is a main contributor to heart disease.

  40. I would suggest 'The Game Changers' and 'What the Health' documentaries to answer these questions. They answered clearly and in shorter time than 3 hours.

  41. Supplementary Calcium is actually Calcium Carbonate which is Limestone. Hence why Calcium supplements can cause Kidney stones and hardening of the arterial walls.

  42. Nutrition science has become no different than sports or political affiliation in that it has essentially become people's religion. Irrespective of facts put in front of them they refuse to believe it because they "know" the truth and anyone speaking otherwise is a heretic and must be shunned. It's actually quite sad that people who are in charge of others' health can be so closed minded and look towards proving themselves right instead of just getting people healthy.

  43. My mother in law ate 2 eggs every day. She was 87. She loved her sweets and fruits. She was slightly overweight, and a diabetic. But not a big woman. Loved soup. My husband and I spent 5 years learning to make her soups for her. Death came by stroke. Not heart disease.

  44. I've always tried to follow the dietary advice of the most successful professional athletes.
    The food they use to achieve athletic success is the food I want to eat.

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